《涡旋之我》封面

涡旋之我

I of the Vortex

Rodolfo R. Llinas · 初版 2001 年

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Hacker News 上怎么说

  • 我推荐利亚纳斯(Llinás)的书《涡旋中的自我》(I of the Vortex),它给“意识”的存在解释了一个非常有趣的理由。另外维特根斯坦对此也有一些看法。

    I would recommend Llinás book "I of the Vortex" which explains a pretty interesting reason for the existance of "consciousness". Also Wittgenstein has some thoughts about it too.

  • 你根本不需要过去40年里的任何新发现,就能断定龙虾是没有感知力(sentient)的。但是,鲁道夫·R·利亚纳斯的《涡旋中的自我:从神经元到自我》(I of the Vortex: From Neurons to Self)是一本非常棒的书,它从单神经元一路往上探索了感知能力的底层机制。太长不看版(TL;DR):那些看起来对于……是必要(即便不充分)的结构

    You don't need anything discovered in the last 40 years to be able to state that lobsters are not sentient. But, Rodolfo R Llinás' "I of the Vortex: From Neurons to Self" is a really great book that explores the underpinings of sentience from single neurons on up. The tldr; is that the structures which seem to be necessary (if not sufficient) for…

  • ……可以通过多种手段来判断一个人是否在思考,这与“内省”截然不同。争论“思维的幻象”听起来真的很像中世纪哲学。关于这些问题,我推荐鲁道夫·利亚纳斯的《涡旋中的自我:从神经元到自我》,看看更现代的视角。

    …can determine whether a person is thinking or not by several means, all very different to 'introspection'. Arguing about 'the illusion of thought' really sounds like medieval philosophy. I recommend 'I of the Vortex: From Neurons to Self' by Rodolfo Llinás for a more modern take on these issues.

  • 我觉得鲁道夫·利亚纳斯实际上比你的那两位哲学家都更懂大脑。请先去读读《涡旋中的自我》这本书再来回复这条评论吧。

    I would argue that Rodolfo Llinás in fact knows more about the brain than either one of your two philosophers. Please read the book 'I of the Vortex' before answering this comment.

  • 你描述的正是神经科学家鲁道夫·利亚纳斯在《涡旋中的自我:从神经元到自我》中的核心观点。自我意识和觉察,既与物理感知紧密相连,也与对该感知的预测和预判密不可分。

    What you describe is the central idea in 'I of the vortex: from neurons to self' by neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinás. Self consciousness and awareness is linked both to physical perception and to the prediction and anticipation of said perception.

  • 这差不多就是鲁道夫·利亚纳斯在他的一本书《涡旋中的自我》[0]里提出的论点,不过书里讲意识多于智力。也就是说,意识之所以进化出来,就是作为一种机制,让我们能够预测接下来的短暂片刻并通过它来控制身体。[0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/i-vortex

    That's kind of the thesis Rodolfo Llinas puts forward in a book of his, I of the Vortex[0], although more about consciousness than intelligence. That is, consciousness is the machinery that developed in order for us to predict the next short while and control our body through it. [0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/i-vortex

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