文明之前的战争

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• ashark · 2014 年

  （挺久）以前我上过一门探讨战争的政治学课程。教授花了大把时间[1]去驳斥所谓和平的“高贵野蛮人”（noble savage）概念，并布置了 Keeley 的《War Before Civilization》[2]作为阅读材料。据我所知，它至今仍是关于史前战争最通俗易懂的优秀著作之一。想系统读一本书深入了解该话题的人可能会感兴趣。TL;DR：它印证了 tjradcliffe 的……

  I took a poli-sci class covering war a(n increasingly long) while back. The professor devoted a huge amount of time[1] to disproving the notion of the peaceful "noble savage" and assigned Keeley's War Before Civilization[2], which is, I gather, still one of the best accessible texts about war in prehistory. May be of interest to anyone wanting to read a book-length exploration of the topic. TL;DR: it corroborates tjradcliffe's…

• neatze · 2021 年

  ……年来，大多数通俗作品和学术著作都认为史前战争是罕见的、无害的、微不足道的，而且就像天花一样，只是文明社会独有的疾病。Lawrence Keeley 开创性的《War Before Civilization》对这类让人安心的神话给予了毁灭性的驳斥，并打破了“原始社会是因为接触文明才引入战争”的观点（他将这种观点斥为“对……的和平化”……

  …years, most popular and scholarly works have agreed that prehistoric warfare was rare, harmless, unimportant, and, like smallpox, a disease of civilized societies alone. Lawrence Keeley's groundbreaking War Before Civilization offers a devastating rebuttal to such comfortable myths and debunks the notion that warfare was introduced to primitive societies through contact with civilization (an idea he denounces as "the pacification…

• xp84 · 2026 年

  ……无论是大群带着黑曜石箭头的勇士，还是拿着火绳枪。想了解根据已知线索拼凑出的前殖民时期美洲样貌，推荐读读这篇：https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Before_Civilization > “根据 Keeley 的说法，在美洲原住民中，只有 13% 的人群没有至少每年与邻居打一次仗。在前哥伦布时期，原住民使用……的古老习俗”

  …it's large numbers of braves with obsidian arrowheads or muskets. A good read for some perspective on what we can piece together about what pre-colonial America was like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Before_Civilization > "According to Keeley, among the indigenous peoples of the Americas, only 13% did not engage in wars with their neighbors at least once per year. The natives' pre-Columbian ancient practice of using…

• wpaladin · 2015 年

  关于这个话题已经有很多讨论了。这里有一本相当不错的书：http://www.amazon.com/War-Before-Civilization-Peaceful-Savag...

  Much has been written on the topic. Here's a fairly decent book. http://www.amazon.com/War-Before-Civilization-Peaceful-Savag...

• clock_tower · 2016 年

  但部落打起仗来比文明社会更厉害（对社会地位顾虑更少，内部内讧更少；关于这方面的有趣讨论可以去读读《War Before Civilization》）——所以过度文明化在某种程度上是自我修正的。Turchin 认为自己的观点是对伊本·赫勒敦（ibn Khaldun）思想的进一步阐释……

  But tribes fight better than civilizations (less concern for social status, less internal dissention; read War Before Civilization for an interesting discussion of this) -- so over-civilization is self-correcting in a way. Turchin sees his ideas as an elaboration on ibn Khaldun...

• amadeuspagel · 2023 年

  这让我想起了《War before Civilization》这本书，讲的是史前战争的考古证据，以及人们为了否定这些证据做出的种种尝试——把防御墙说成纯粹是象征性的（到底象征啥？），把武器说成是交换媒介（凭啥值钱？）。一个水……

  This reminds me of the book War before Civilization, about the archeological evidence for pre-historical war and the many attempts to dismiss it, to declare walls merely symbolical (symbols of what?), weapons as means of exchange (valuable why?). A water…

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