论李维

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• rrggrr · 2016 年

  ……《君主论》其实是一封求职信，是流亡且穷困潦倒的马基雅维利写给美第奇家族宫廷的。Parks 似乎忘了这个尴尬的事实。Parks 还忘了提，恰恰是马基雅维利的《李维史论》——一本在结构论证上与《君主论》针锋相对的书——在大声疾呼马基雅维利对共和制的热爱，远胜于君主制或专制统治，并且将美德定义在理想化的古典……

  …Prince was a job application, from an exiled and impoverished Machiavelli to the court of Medici. Parks seems to forget this inconvenient fact. Parks also forgets to mention that it was Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy, a book that disagrees with The Prince with numerological precision, that screams Machiavelli's love of a Republic over a monarchical or despotic rule, and that defines virtue in idealized, classical…

• anovikov · 2021 年

  赞同，那些真想读懂马基雅维利的人应该去读《李维史论》，而不是《君主论》。他是一个狂热的共和主义支持者（不是现代民主，那会儿还没这玩意儿），并且拿了他那个时代的许多例子来证明共和秩序优于贵族统治，同样……

  Agree, those wishing to actually understand Machiavelli should read "Discourses on Livy", rather than "Prince". He was an avid supporter of republicanism (not democracy, those didn't exist yet) and proven superiority of republican order vs aristocratic on many examples from his era as we…

• jacobolus · 2010 年

  ……对于这类问题的一种务实解法，建立在像麦迪逊和杰斐逊这样聪明的家伙在试图管理初创民主国家时获得的数十年一线经验之上。（马基雅维利的《李维史论》大概也值得一读。）如果想要更偏文学性的探讨，去读读巴尔扎克的小说吧：19世纪初的法国正值贵族阶层向资产阶层转变的开端，而且迅速扩张的……

  …pragmatic solution to these kinds of problems, based on the decades of first-hand experience some smart blokes like Madison and Jefferson had trying to run fledgling democratic states. (And Machiavelli’s Discourses on Livy is probably worth a read too.) For a more literary exploration, read some Balzac novels: early 19th century France was the beginning of the cross-over from aristocracy to bourgeoisie, and rapidly growing…

• jacobolus · 2010 年

  ……能对公民不断变化的需求和环境做出响应，并在地方层面对地方差异做出响应，等等。* * * 在我看来，对“为什么”解释得最好的，当属马基雅维利的《李维史论》、孟德斯鸠的《论法的精神》、托克维尔的《论美国的民主》，以及麦迪逊/汉密尔顿/杰斐逊合著的《联邦党人文集》（如果你觉得自己精力充沛，也可以去翻翻洛克、卢梭、霍布斯等人……

  …which is responsive to the changing needs and circumstances of its citizens and responsive at a local level to local differences, etc. * * * The why is in my opinion best described in Machiavelli’s Discourses on Livy, Montesquieu’s Spirit of the Laws, Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, and Madison/Hamilton/Jefferson’s Federalist Papers (and you might look at Locke, Rousseau, Hobbes, etc. too if you’re feeling extra…

• jacobolus · 2010 年

  ……以及《联邦党人文集》第51篇，一对极为出色的论文。http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa51.htm（如果你特别有野心，接着就该去读马基雅维利的《李维史论》和托克维尔的《论美国的民主》）

  …and Federalist #51, a pair of brilliant essays. http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa51.htm (And if especially ambitious, should then read Machiavelli’s Discourses on Livy, and Tocqueville’s Democracy in America)

• DuncanIdaho · 2010 年

  读完《沙丘》第一部和第二部三部曲，你想要的很多东西都能找到。另外我也推荐读读弗拉基米尔·巴托尔的《阿刺模忒》（Alamut）。要是想看更严肃的作品——我推荐马基雅维利的《李维史论》（Discourses on Livy）。

  Reading first and second Dune trilogy would give you a lot of what you are asking for. Also I would recommend reading Alamut from Vladimir Bartol. For more serious works - I would offer Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy.

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